Now that Microsoft has freed
Windows Vista from the shackles of a five year development process, the company is attempting to
the wow
starts now us by revealing that it plans to have its
next major operating system ready within the next two-and-a-half years, giving Vista's successor an expected release date of late 2009. Speaking to
PC World, Ben Fathi, the executive in charge of the OS's core components, made it clear that he was referring to a whole new OS -- known to have the codename "Vienna" -- and not the upcoming Vista service pack, codenamed "
Fiji." Other than this tentative release date, Ben didn't have much new information on the future for Windows: in response to the question of what Vienna's killer feature will be, he said "I don't know what it is" and then proceeded to suggest that full virtualization and a radical new user interface will be the aim. Both of these suggestions lend credence to
previous reports that a break in compatiblity with older applications and a new user interface would be Vienna's flagship features. Now all we've got to do is wait (and hope that the changes aren't
too radical.)
posted Feb 10th 2007 9:15PM
Don't buy the heap of burning dog crap that is Vista. Save your pennies a little longer, and buy a mac. Or don't save your pennies and install Linux.
So maybe about 2013?
I for one welcome our Vienna sausage overlords.
I suspect that Vienna will be released a year late and be called MS X.
Hey, it takes time to copy Leopard.
Poor PC users
having to wait til 2013...
damn microsoft and its 5 year late calendar
dont you mean Mac OS11??
A while ago I read (either here or @ Neowin) that the next Windows OS will feature a round "pie-shaped" interface instead of the usual start menu we're all used to. Sounds scary.
Well i doubt it'll be released in '09 but I'll certainly be looking forward to it
Shit, why even bother with Vista then? I honestly won't be upgrading to it for a year, why not wait a bit more and get this new "revolutionary" OS that Vienna is supposed to be.
I just hope it's not a jump like Win98 to XP and more like jumping from 3.11 to 95.
Demaar, I agree with you. The leap needs to be huge, I would like to see a whole new way to interact with computers, like what the Start Menu did back in the day.
But 2009? I don't believe that, sorry.
Does anybody else find this stupid that Window's is even speaking about a new OS directly after releasing Vista and add to that mentioning that there will be a service pack ( Fiji) to something they just released. Next they'll be conceding that the Mac OS is superior.... somebody in their marketing department wasn't thinking very well.
What's with the haters on here? I would think the Microsoft has learned their lesson by now. And if it's suppose to be a different user interface, how does that mean it's gonna copy Leopard, eh? If Vista is suppose to be a copy of Tiger, then how can Vienna be a copy of Leopard, if Leopard will have relatively the same UI like Tiger? Hmm? You guys are all losers. Get a life, and stop the hating.
Seriously! What is up with all the Mac Fanboy's?
They're trying to spread around the Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt so that they can get people to buy more Apple products's. Yes. Apple fan-boys really are like that.
What's up with all the Windows fanboys down voting them?
It's like both armies of fat hairy nerds have nothing better to do with their time.
Well I'm content with Vista right now and I'd rather see people move to Vista first and all of the ISV's get their software working in Vista before thinking about Vienna (sausage).
I'll definitely be excited to hear more though!
you mactards are messing up engadget.
Well I have been a Vista user long before the public betas were out. Microsoft has done an amazing job with the OS and the biggest hurdle for it right now are drivers from various makers. They are what is slowing this OS's jump across the world. So, until you try it, shut the hell up. :)
As for the comment in the article "Now all we've got to do is wait (and hope that the changes aren't too radical.)" Why not have it radical? Windows has been the same since 95. The biggest change was with NT and that was just the kernel design. So, its time for a change. Mac hasn't changed its core design (The top File, Edit, etc. Bar) minus the fact they added features along the way (The bar at the bottom, etc.) So, I hope for Vienna, that they throw us all a loop. They should dump the NT kernel and make a whole new OS from a blank coding page. Its the only way Microsoft can continue in the PC market.
ha! you believe microsofts release dates...
Well, if Vienna does copy Leopard, I just hope that Microsoft's version of Time Machine has a feature that allows you to go back to before you made the terrible choice to use Windows.
Do you actually believe that? Leopard doesn't offer anything over Vista. Time Machine? It's called System Restore and has been in Windows for years. There's also Shadow Copy for looking at previous versions of documents you may have saved over. I guess it's not Microsoft playing catchup? Oh, what about Front Row? Could that be a copy (lame attempt at that) of Media Center? Guess what, both companies take ideas and use them in their products. Mac fanboys are so frustrating. Apple does as much "copying" as anyone else, probably more.
Many of the features you see in Mac OS were in Windows first- including indexing search (Spotlight). Microsoft just needs to stop publicly showing all of these features if they're not going to ship the OS for a few years after.
Microsoft's version of Time Machine? Are you on crack or what? Volume Shadow Copy has been available since server 2003. And you're gonna be telling saying "Microsoft's version of Time Machine". F***ing mactards should stop trolling engadget and get a life of their own.
You Windows fanboys need to learn to take a joke and stop accusing everyone of being Mac fanboys. I'm a Linux user fyi. Also, don't tell me I don't have a life when all you do is look around for Mac related comments to lose your temper over.
Awesome, love Vista and look forward to Vienna, I also love my Mac (running 10.4.6) and I think that Vista and Tiger are VERY different. Sadly some Mac fans make all us Mac users look bad :(
Anyway I think that its achievable they have probably had a small team working on it for a while now so it is probably not from a dead start.
I hope its out 2009 or 2010. Why must we argue about which OS is better, neither is, I love my Mac and Windows because they both work and both do their job, Windows is not a bad OS until you start installing crap that messes everything up. You can do the same to a Mac if you install crap programs.
amen, thank you for saying that. i dont see why people have to dis one side. why cant they look at the future and the positives of macs and windows.
i mean good god stop acting like little kids. if a bunch of microsoft fans are commenting on something you disagree about, then dont ruin the whole thing and start a fight or have a intelligent coversation with them.
I am not a Windows fanboy, I am a neutral (I use both Mac and Windows and dable in Ubuntu and use Fedora Core on my servers).
I find it frustrating however when people make incorrect comments and spread FUD mainly because it will make non tech people believe it and in general causes arguments. Surprised anyone uses Linux willingly, I would always have a Mac/Windows backup just incase. I mean Linux has a kernel which is so unreliable I have had to recompile it constantly, mainly happens when I compile binaries.
See what I did there? :P
As a desktop I have found Linux to be incredibly stable and efficient. The biggest problems usually come from simple mistakes by a user. If your looking for something even more stable though I would suggest FreeBSD. I mean I love Linux too death, but BSD tends to beat it by a bit at times if you're using just the kernal, it might be better for you outa what I figure you might have to use it for.
Umm it will be released on time... you wanna know why? They started dev on it at the same time as vista. But they knew it would take longer to finish. So they also devolped Vista as an intermediate build between xp and vienna. And the launch date has always been 2009.
This is all kinda stupid at this point. People are putting up hundreds of dollars in software and hardware for largely meaningless features like transparencies and 3D environments. This goes to both Mac and Windows users. The basic idea of the GUI we have now is fine, it doesn't need very much improvement, people just have trouble enjoying simple efficiency. I know for one that environment is simplified and efficient, 2D, no shading, no transparency, no colorful start bars, I just enjoy efficiency. Why is this? Because I like to get work done. Stop trying to sell the people a shinny surface and start selling a better made tool.
I agree to some extent about the 3D flashy whiz-bang UIs. They really offer little in terms of improved usability and simply use up more resources. That said, a computer is not a tool to everyone, to some it's a toy. You can't alienate a large portion of the market just in the name of efficiency. As long as we have the option to turn all that crap off, it's not a huge deal to me (can we do that in Vista?).
Vienna is likely to be a POSIX Unix kernel with Win32/Win64 APIs, or Unix + the new interface everyone seems to be expecting + Win32/Win64 compatibility layer, ala Rosetta for OS X Intel.
I remember reading a white paper MS released 1-2 years ago talking about how to build a modern Desktop/Workstation OS from scratch, and the design principles were all based on POSIX standards.
halo 2 in late 2003...
"long horn" in 2004...
etc, etc
If it's anything like the change from office 2003 to office 2007... it will probably be awesome. I'd kill to get my hands on the current vienna build
There is no current Vienna build.
If you say you're releasing it in 2 years, you've gotta have something. Of course, I don't think they'd have any kind of public beta ready, but yeah I'm sure someone in redmond is playing with something cool right now.
Of course they don't know what the killer feature will be yet--they haven't had a chance to use the RTM version of Leopard just yet. Don't worry, in 2014 Steve Ballmer's children will be on a press tour telling us about all the "innovations" in Vienna that have been in OS X (10.6) for 5 years.
--
chort / http://www.SMTPS.net
"What's with the haters on here?"
This is why you should hate: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
I don't even want to hear about people being annoyed about others hating Vista. As far as I'm concerned, Vista earns every piece of it.
"I would think the Microsoft has learned their lesson by now."
Well I think probably not. Look at every DRM company/user in the world today. They STILL haven't figured out that they're same old business model isn't going to work as well as it used to and that they need to innovate themselves instead of treating every user like a criminal. Unless this "Fiji" SP completely removes all the DRM devices in Vista, then ess tee eff you, please. Microsoft hasn't learned jack.
"Well I have been a Vista user long before the public betas were out. Microsoft has done an amazing job with the OS and the biggest hurdle for it right now are drivers from various makers."
I want YOU, especially to read http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html . It's not really the device drivers fault that it's taking forever for drivers to come out. Vista is so restrictive on their driver/device requirements, that it just gives companies even more of a pain in the rear. Also, for the record, I have used Vista before. Largely unimpressed. Pretty decent UI, I have to say... (though there truly ARE stunning similarities between it and OS X Tiger). Otherwise I found it pretty annoying.
The other thing about Vista that I find absolutely atrocious is the system requirements to run it. I shouldn't have to buy a computer that would run current day games like a dream in order to run my operating system to take advantage of all its features.
Everyone likes to compare Tiger to Vista, but I'm kinda curious how with 512 MB of RAM and an integrated video board that Tiger can look incredible when Vista recommends 2 Gigs of RAM and a 256 MB Video card.
Imo, GTFO Vista! I'll stick with XP, thanks.
It's not even a matter of Vista vs. Tiger. To me, it's really more of a Vista vs. XP. And as far as I'm concerned, XP wins hands down. Also, I don't hate Vista because I'm a Mac fanboy. If anything, I'm considering switching to Mac BECAUSE I hate Vista.
Take your stupid Direct X 10 (Which doesn't support DirectSound, GG!!) that's only for your "shiny," DRMed, UAC'ed, Tilt bitted, Driver controlled, and shove it up your butt. I'm a gamer, but there's no way in hell I'm letting Microsoft trap me into Vista because of Direct X 10.
Fiji better be a damned good service pack, or Vista will never be worth switching to over XP. And this is why: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
Your whole argument was nullified when you decided to make the ultimate hipster move by trying to liven up "shut the fuck up" with "ess tee eff you".
Let's not be gay, please.
why announce this now? when theres plenty of people wondering if they should upgrade to vista why announce a new OS that is apparently not too far off. If I weren't using a Mac I would definitely think about waiting it out with XP
The new user interface is being designed by the people who did the "ribbon" in Office 2007. I wouldn't be surprised it were something like that. It should be something that's naturally more intuitive for people who've never used computers (think OLPC interface) but will take some time to relearn for everyone else out there. Of course, everyone will complain at first, but then they'll get used to it, and the world will be better for it.
My guess is that the guts will be mostly the same as Vista (what with Ballmer mentioning that Vista is going to be the foundation for Windows for a while) but the UI should be fairly different. Actually, if they can do a new UI with few changes to the underlying core, it'd be nice to see them seperate the desktop from the rest of the OS as in Linux (i.e. you have a choice of Gnome, KDE, and others). This would allow the UI to evolve independently, and faster, than the rest of the OS.
2009?
...If (and, admittedly, it's probably a BIG if) it's released on time, why so soon? I don't even have Vista yet, and don't plan on it until my current computer can no longer do what I need it to - that is, play Final Fantasy XI, run Microsoft Office, run the Macromedia Suite, and connect to the internet. Since I'm still unsure whether FFXI runs on Vista yet, I'm not making the change. My game means more to me than a brand new operating system - especially if one is coming out in two years or so.
That being said, I probably would upgrade to Vista if my current laptop meets the same fate as the old: a nice, steaming cup of Hot Coffee. No, really. A Grande sized Latte does not mingle well with the keyboard or the innards of a Dell Laptop.
Jesus, so many bandwagons which one should I hop onto... how about both.
zOMG m$ 2009 is like 2013 lolz.
LOL MORE LIKE WINDOWS OSX LEOPARD!!!111shiftone1one
Yes!!!!
OMFg!!!!11!!!!11!!one!!!11!!!11!!eleven!!1!!11!!1
M$$$? MOre like B$$$!!!!!
Hahahahaha !!!!!!!!
M@cs rulzzzz!!!!!
I think it's safe to say most of the "haters" have never even touched Vista. It's sleeker, it's faster, and it'll only get better.
just watching u guys fighting, feels like mac fanboys are really cute, their whole life is dropping knees in front of apple (computer) and insulting PC users. some angry villege people really happy in their little land. get a life boys.
See, they never learn anything. DO NOT PRE-ANNOUNCE, FRIGTARDS! Your shareholders will thank you.
Instead what will happen is they'll pre-announce feature set and release date years in advance and then cut most of the features and slip the release date. And even then there will be not enough time.
Mac sucks and so do it's pretentious users.I had a mac notebook but was too tired to read the two pages on ejecting the cd tray.Hardware company indeed.If they put the Ipood OS on their computers, suckers might think it was a quality product. As soon as the average person started buying that junk, all you Mac posers would have to find the next underground piece of crap to lord over us average fools
As bluntly as you put it, you're pretty much dead on, at least in my experience.
Most Mac users I know pretty much fit the "counter culture" type to a T. It's really sad. They all double major in philosophy and english or something and have dyed black spiky hair.
This is a true story. I was walking back from the gym on campus wearing this old, beat up polo with a Microsoft logo on the upper-left chest my dad gave me from some golf tournament like 10 years back. Some kid in skin-tight black jeans with the same spiky hair spit on the ground in front of me and exclaimed "fuck Bill Gates and fuck you".
I didn't know what to say, I was just shocked. There's a Facebook group at my school entitled entitled "Business students are stupid and Windows is stupid too".
Really?
I guess my stupid business degree is good enough to rack out ~67k after taxes when I start working in May.
I guess I'll see all these guys when they're managing a Barnes & Noble after they get their masters and still can't find work.
You sound really intelligent, for a 5 year old boy.
This is something too wowful for the MS Users worldwide...hoping that MS will be going into hibernation after vienna ;)
Didn't Microsoft learn anything from breaking compatibility with the original Xbox?? People like/want/need backward compatibility!! If Microsoft is STUPID enough to break compatibility with previous programs, they are just cutting their own throats. Vista with SP1 will be the last MS OS I'll buy then, no matter how "revolutionary" Vienna is.
Hold on.
I'm not that knowledgeable at macs, but didn't osx "break" backwards-compatibility? Wasn't there a semi-large fallout?
I think both of the platform mindshare giants are due for a 'Major' overhaul.
what we're using remember is interface design, gussied up, but still from the 1970's, that's finishing off its 30year mark. Obviously by major i really mean 'Major'. OSX was lower case 'major', and mostly to make it prettier and more windows like, while getting a bit sucked by the strange workings of the 'NIX file system. But that doesn't really enter into it in the next step, the real 'Major' is a new paradigm. It's going to be really hard to do because of the way we've designed our means of information transfer. everything these days is in discrete closed boxes, a simple peice of writing isn't useful unless you have code designed specifically to read and interpret its particular method of being. All of this is so last century it's not the least bit funny.
some of the kids who started the gui back in the old days started something called Archy. The Humane Interface, now less kids and more Jef Raskin. In one sense the newton had the core fundamental, 'soup' and modern big apps have the implementation, 'plugin', but sticking those together and kicking ass hasn't and probably won't be done on personal systems for many many years to come because people want to use 'files' and separate 'programs' because that's what they've got to work with for better or for worse. And there's monetary incentive in it.
oh and where are the "the 'WoW' starts now" jokes?
oh and kids, lay off the mac fans!
sheesh. there are and have been plenty of good reasons to get upset with the windows empire and having found something that doesn't make you freak as a replacement is something to shout about it. I'm just tired of getting a bum rap because some people just take it over the top.
And besides, if there was a dead horse that is no longer recogniseable as a fleshy being due to its being beaten to its component atoms this would certainly be it.
And there's no lack of love for gateseybaby from the engadget staff anyhow so chill folks.
Just because apple is finally getting some long deserved love from the establishment (ya that's you Engadget, even Gizmodo)is no reason to vent about the ovezealous among the mac faithful, the RDF can only work so far, there IS something beyond that whether you choose to vilify it or not.
and you're not geting a 67k just because your degree says 'business' on it so get off yer frickin horse. Or i'll start beating it to death.
Yeah, you're right.
One will say "Finance", the other "Energy Management", both will say "Magna Cum Laude" and assuming the taxes around the Dallas/Ft. Worth area don't spike drastically, 67k will be a pretty fair estimate, or so says the contract I signed in December.
And about "generalising", see the part where I said "at least in my experience". There may be perfectly level-headed mac users out there who actually were loved by their moms as children, but as I expressed, the ones I'm familiar with are not that way.
These are the same guys who "hate using these piece of shit Dells in the library". What? The machines have fresh images pushed to them every Friday night (the only time the library closes) and the machines themselves are replaced every 18 months. Totally groundless.
and before i forget:
generalising makes you sound like a tool.
Zing!
He got me folks!
You sure sound intelligent, for a 5 year old.
If this is the case, does that make Vista the spiritual successor to the abortion that was Windows ME?
For reference: ME was released in late 2000, only to be succeeded about a year later by XP.
I guess time will tell. But this has certainly answered my question as to whether I should upgrade to Vista or not, that along with some poor driver support from companies like Nvidia
How are they testing it? If there's a 'revolutionary' new UI I doubt current graphics cards will handle it and it's not on msdn
So Microsoft says 2009, on previous form that'll mean it would hit sometime in 2015
who needs it? they should make Windows XP ME or something alike )
When they do such a minor upgrade from XP to Vista in about 5 years, how do they expect to do a 'complete user interface overhaul' in three?
How can they justify the Vista price point if it's to be defunct in two and a bit years?
I knew was back early Dec that Vista was junk. That is like I know right now that Vienna will be great. Follow this thinking
Windows 95 = Junk
Windows 98 = Great
Windows ME = Junk
Windows XP = Great
Windows Vista = Junk
Windows Vienna = Great?
Microsoft makes us the users debug ever other OS they have. Then Microsoft fixes it in the next version. People may rip on Microsoft for taking so long with Vista, but remember, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
Well I think you mean:
Windows 95 = Junk
Windows 98 = Junkier
Windows ME = Junkierer
Windows XP = Junkiererer
Windows Vista = Junkierererer
Windows Vienna = junkiest!
First I was waiting Microsoft developers(Oooops I mean Hackers) to hit the new system with a new virus!
But to here this news! Huh..it`s really funny!
I start to think that Microsoft is just a bunch of thieves!
I hope the new Fedora version will match my need to say goodbye to Windows!
I agree mostly w/ Elfonhorseback... Vista reminds me of the way 98 was compared to 95. its an upgrade to XP, but mostly cosmetic.
Its no secret they scrapped a huge chunk of features expected for this release so that they could get something out, and then push those features to the next release so that they can keep working on them.
actually august I would have to say that the Mac is becoming quite a bit more mainstream these days, I'm a business student also and in my classes I'm seeing more and more Macbooks. I'm actually tempted to pick one up myself when I get the cash, I mean its small it has a long battery life and the tech specs aren't too bad.
For sure, for sure. MS Office for mac has opened up the platform quite a bit. But you'll find several Dell and Sony models that are smaller, better spec'd and probably cheaper as well (no one really cares about Firewire800 mac fanboys, so I don't want to hear it).
But still, mac has what, like a 9% market share, at most?
It's far from even competing with Windows as the dominant OS.
When can I download the beta copy? Alpha? :)
I guess I'll just have to be content with Vista for now, but I'm curious to see how they'll make Vienna so much different than all the previous operating systems they've made.
Oh my god. Everyone needs to chiiiiill out. 80% of the people out there are using their computers to do the exact same goddamn thing; it doesn't matter if you have a mac or use windows. Both platforms have been copying each other for years, and thank god for it. Any move either player takes ultimately (hopefully) just moves us towards a more natural experience with these things we call computers... which consequently aren't a very natural way of interacting with anything. You like games? Great. Designing your passion? Fantastic. Use what makes sense to you. I use Mac OS because it's what I've grown up on, so of course I'm excited to see any headway in that department. It's what I'm more proficient in, and prefer for my career. I'm not like... ready to take a bullet for it. Most of my friends go for windows, and have great valid reasons for it. I'm not going to cry myself to sleep if one day I get plopped in front of a Windows PC, because guess what? There are some pretty cool elements to windows. I don't care who had what first. Just be glad that it's there.
this mac-windows fights are really old. if you dont like macs stay off them..if you dont like windows/PCs stay off them. youre just giving yourself heartache dreaming about the "enemies" downfall.
anyway that dude who said windows 95 was junk...now THATS a hater.
ok i had to respond to this:
"no one really cares about Firewire800 mac fanboys, so I don't want to hear it"
news flash, neither does apple. not all that many macs even have firewire anymore.
"But still, mac has what, like a 9% market share, at most?"
why does anyone ever bring this up? It's like berating bmw for not competing with everyone's favorite superbest automaker from the land of the rising sun- Toyota in volume. that's just silly. Apple has always aimed a bit upscale. And you can't afford not to when you try and do so much of the system yourself.
what i find so annoying is all those damn people who get so uppity when somebody is Not slagging on apple. psh. grow up.
sorry for pulling out the horse-beating stick. it was reflexive.
"news flash, neither does apple. not all that many macs even have firewire anymore."
All Macs have Firewire ports.
Microsoft as an OS Software company is the worst in the world! No won hates PC's, JUST Windows!
Windows Vista is an attempt to attract the MAC envious/loving crowd with flashy memory hogging asthetics that do nothing for the professional PC user. Go ahead, wate your money. Odd's are you'll have to trash your existing computer after installing because of this OS!
And YES, Macintosh started the whole flashy OS design back in 1999/2000 with the introduction os OSX...
I've had a good go on Vista, and I can't believe how similar ot is to XP. Even though the UI is now vector based, why do the icons still look like W98 crap quality? The UI fx look shoe-horned in with no understanding of aesthestics. I know it's technically better underneath (although this remains to be seen, as Windows has always been an OS that degrades severely over time), but where is the WOW factor?? It's the most disappointing major software release I've ever seen. Is anyone 'really really' loving it??
The main (crucial) thing that Vista has going for it is the effect on the IT industry, ie- lots of expensive consulting from people like me to make money helping people fix stuff that doesn't work anymore. :-)
Sustaining corporate IT, that's what Vista is for!
I use whatever OS works. But, if I had to pick, I'd only have to read the following two links to know which one I'd pick. One is the February 2007 security update from Microsoft for Windows, and one is the February 2007 security update from Apple.
Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms07-feb.mspx
Apple: http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/securityupdate2007002universal.html
I find Microsoft's especially scary...note that RTF is now an intrusion vector, and that there's a remote code exploit in Microsoft's Malware Protection Engine. Yeah, that all makes me feel really confident in my Windows systems and any claims Microsoft might make about any future products.
just use linux os , no cost and downloadable.
vista is just popular!
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